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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:26:00 -
[1]
There are sooo many factors which contribute to how good a ship is. At the end of the day the closest you can get to determine how good a ship is would be to look at how many people pvp with the ship. So I go and check the eve-kill killboard (pulls from thousands of KBs) and I was surprised at how the Drake just dominates the the other ships in kills. I remember when the falcon was on top (then nerfed) and vaga was on top (then nerfed), but neither came ever came even close to the existing drake numbers.
Rank / Ship / Kills
1 Drake 196690
2 Hurricane 77399
3 Zealot 73885
4 Megathron 35232
5 Vagabond 34021
6 Harbinger 29020
7 Tempest 28938
8 Armageddon 23182
9 Apocalypse 22094
10 Muninn 21658
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.10.09 20:04:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Zekuloth
Originally by: Solid Star
There are sooo many factors which contribute to how good a ship is. At the end of the day the closest you can get to determine how good a ship is would be to look at how many people pvp with the ship. So I go and check the eve-kill killboard (pulls from thousands of KBs) and I was surprised at how the Drake just dominates the the other ships in kills. I remember when the falcon was on top (then nerfed) and vaga was on top (then nerfed), but neither came ever came even close to the existing drake numbers.
Rank / Ship / Kills
1 Drake 196690
2 Hurricane 77399
3 Zealot 73885
4 Megathron 35232
5 Vagabond 34021
6 Harbinger 29020
7 Tempest 28938
8 Armageddon 23182
9 Apocalypse 22094
10 Muninn 21658
How many people pvp with a ship doesnt really tell you how good at pvp said ship is. that only shows that the Drake is the only decent ship that Caldari have, buff the rest of the Caldari ships for pvp thanks.
Not true as most people that PVP cross train at least one other race ships. That also does not explain all the Drake gangs you see. I don't think the FC is looking for only Caldari race pilots for the drake gang.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.10.10 00:46:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Oooook, so it's fine for Minmatar to have the best guns all round, but god forbid Caldari should have debatably (bolded for emphasis) one of the best t1 battlecruisers? Riiiiight. Cry the **** more please.
Nah, I am not saying to nerf the Drake. That would actually hurt me as I fly in drake gangs. And Caldari are limited in their PVP options so some could argue you balances out. What I don't like is people pretending it is not a good pvp boat because they fear CCP will nerf it.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:26:00 -
[4]
CCP has already stated that the Drake has seen a significant increase in use and we can see this ourselves on the major killboards. Below are the stats from the eve kill site which show the Drake dominating all other ships. These numbers put the Falcon and Vaga to shame during their glory days.
Rank / Kills
1 Drake 283608
2 Hurricane 91237
3 Megathron 54835
4 Zealot 50624
5 Tempest 45606
What CCP ultimately wants to see a variety of ships being used in Eve, so when they see stuff like this they have a 100% record of taking action. So the focus should be on what is fair. There are two main factors that seperate the drake with all other ships. Its high shield resists and a long range. When non drakes join a drake gang, those 'other' ships are always primary as they can't be repped as well by the Scimis and so are easier to kill.
One fix is to provide other high shield resist ships with long range. Then people will jump in those alternatives for drake gangs. This would definitely drop drake usage as I personally hate boarding a drake, but I do it anyways as it is so damn good.
Another fix is to nerf either the resist bonus or long range of the drake. Either nerf would automatically make other ships viable to be in the drake gang. This would also cause the type of emo we saw with the great speed nerf.
Another option is create an effective counter to a drake gang. As there are so many drake gangs out there, you would see this 'counter' become popular quickly. I have yet to figure out what this counter would be but that is why pay the big buck to CCP, so they can figure it out.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Keras Authion
Originally by: Solid Star
CCP has already stated that the Drake has seen a significant increase in use and we can see this ourselves on the major killboards. Below are the stats from the eve kill site which show the Drake dominating all other ships. These numbers put the Falcon and Vaga to shame during their glory days.
Maybe it's because there's no good alternatives for caldari. On the same top 10 (there's a longer list earlier in this thread) there's only 2 caldari ships, the other being manticore. So I agree, buff the other caldari ships so we can get more variety on field or at least fix the damn hybrids. Also the sum of the racial ships is about the same except for the gallente. Let's look at the other options available.
I do agree that any solution that wants to limit emo would need to be more comprehensive then just hitting the drake with a nerf bat. And anyone that believes there is nothing wrong needs their head examined. If CCP doubled the DPS and range of a tank they would still say the Drake is balanced.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.11.04 05:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Solid Star
And anyone that believes there is nothing wrong needs their head examined. If CCP doubled the DPS and range of a tank they would still say the Drake is balanced.
If Drakes aren't overpowered solo and in small gang, but are overpowered in laggy blob with logistics support, then the problem isn't the Drake, it's the laggy blob or the logistics support.
Not much more to it than that, really. 
That is a logical fallacy. A being true does not make B false. By your logic, if we were to replace the drakes with the exact number of another ship type (of similar cost) they would do equally as well. We already know that is not true because the drakes range and resist bonus. For another BC to be equal (tank wise) you would need 25% more logistics in gang repping you. If you have ever engaged a drake gang you should know that most FCs target the Hurricanes and other non Drakes first. They do this because they know the logistics can't rep a Cane as well as it has no resist bonus.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.11.04 13:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gypsio III
If the reason that Drakes are preferred over Hurricanes is because of the Drake's resists being better for logistics, then it's quite obvious that the logistics is the problem, not the Drake.
Complete remove the logistics from game and the Hurricane will still be primaried over the Drake. Also, it will take 25% more DPS (or time) to bring down a fleet of Drakes over a fleet of Hurricanes (all other things being equal). More time depend on gang size as shield recharge plays a bigger part.
The drake is not any better in a mixed gang as the actual dps that eventually hits the target is not the best, it not a great tackler, and does not do instant alpha dmg. Couple that with the huge tank and you have a ship where the FC waits till the end to kill it. The problem comes when it is an all drake gang as you can't save it for last. You now need to break the tank of every single drake. So the problem is not the solo drake, the problem is the blob of drakes. We move that blob and we fix the problem.
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